What if
November 26, 2014, 03:44:50 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News:
 
  Home   Forum   Help Search Links Gallery Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2
  Print  
Author Topic: Lockheed & Boeing & Vought LWF-contenders  (Read 12699 times)
Deino
Targeted for assassination by JMNs
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 767



« on: December 03, 2003, 08:25:14 PM »

I was searching quite a long time for the other LWF-contenders .... actually there have been five contenders:    Blink

General Dynamics Model 401 (the later YF-16)
Northrop Model P-600 (the later YF-17)
Boeing Model 908-909 ...... no information untill now
Vought V-1100 ...... no information too
Lockheed CL-1200 Lancer .... hmmm Huh?? some very "strange" info !

... but see below !   huh

1. the Lockheed CL-1200 Lancer

This project was first planed as a further development of the F-104 to compete for export sales against the later F-5 ... after many modifications and chnges in design it was proposed to several European contries ... a programe which later was won by the McDD F-4 !
In which form it was proposed for the LWF ... Huh?? ... I don't know !!

But here are some more info:

http://members.home.nl/noor.luijkx/northam/lancer.htm




http://jpcolliat.free.fr/cl1200/cl1200.php3









later more !!   Wub

Deino
Logged

...
My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.

The stars are not wanted now; put out every one:
Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun;
Pour away the ocean and sweep up the woods:
For nothing now can ever come to any good.
-
W.H.Auden (1945
Deino
Targeted for assassination by JMNs
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 767



« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2003, 08:32:50 PM »

But on the others I only found some text information:
---------------------------------------------
Proposals for the LXF
Five manufacturers submitted proposals in response to the RFP --- Boeing, Northrop, General Dynamics, Ling-Temco-Vought, and Lockheed. In March of 1972, the Air Staff concluded that the competing Boeing Model 908-909 was the first choice, with the General Dynamics Model 401 and the Northrop Model P-600 being rated as close seconds. The Vought V-1100 and Lockheed CL-1200 Lancer had been eliminated.
The Source Selection Authority, after further work, rated the General Dynamics and Northrop proposals ahead of the Boeing submission. The General Dynamics Model 401-16B and the Northrop P-600 were chosen for further development on April 13, 1972, and contracts for two YF-16s (72-1567/1568) and two YF-17s were awarded. Rather than the "X" (experimental) prefix being used, the "Y" (development) prefix was used in order to indicate that a mixture of off-the-shelf and experimental technologies were being used. The YF-16 was to be powered by a single Pratt & Whitney F100 turbofan, whereas the YF-17 was to be powered by a pair of General Electric YJ101 engines.
The "cost plus fixed fee" contracts covered the design, construction, and testing of two prototypes, plus a year of flight testing. At the time, the Air Force was still very much committed to the F-15 fighter, and visualized the LWF program as more of a technology-demonstration project rather than a serious effort for a production aircraft. At the same time, contracts were given to Pratt & Whitney for a version of the F100 turbofan specially adapted for single-engined aircraft and to General Electric for the new and smaller YJ101 engine.

http://www.f-16.net/reference/versions/f16_lwf.html

.... but yesterday ... THANKS Habu2 from f16-net   B)   here it is:


Vought's LWF proposal, from Jay Miller's book:

AeroFax AeroGraph No.1 von Jay Miller (ISBN 0-942548-01-9)

... there’s not only a picture of a model of Boeing’s model 908 and a report an Vought’s V-1100 and V-1600/1601 the proposed Navy-Version (single and twin seat versions) !!!

"Aerofax AeroGraph no.1 by Jay Miller has drawings of Vought's LWF proposal, the V-1100 (p.16) and a photo of a model of Boeing's LWF proposal, the Model 908 (p.19). The V-1100 looks like an F-8 Crusader with a longer nose and the intake lip moved back. Boeing's 908 looks amazingly like an F-16, with a bubble canopy, strakes along the fwd fuselage, a similar wing and tail planform. The main difference is the 908 has a more round rear fuselage instead of the extended 'side pods' of the F-16.

This book also has a chapter on the Vought V-1600, the Navy version of the LWF. If the contract had been let, Vought would have built the naval version of the F-16. Imagine an F-16 with strengthened landing gear, twin nose wheels, catapult bar, arresting hook, refueling probe and built-in boarding ladder. The two-seat V-1601 had a raised rear cockpit, with the back-seater's knees at the same elevation as the front-seater's head. The V-1601 front canopy hinged at the front and the rear canopy hinged at the rear. The navalized F-16 was forced upon the Navyand they fought the program until they finally killed it."



... after the lost LWF-contest it was decided that Vought would do the development work for the corresponding Navy contest ... as McDD was choosen for the YF-17 development into the F/A-18 .... the resulkting desing was model V-1600 and 1601 a navelised F-16 :   Wub




Deino   Smiley
 
Logged

...
My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.

The stars are not wanted now; put out every one:
Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun;
Pour away the ocean and sweep up the woods:
For nothing now can ever come to any good.
-
W.H.Auden (1945
Deino
Targeted for assassination by JMNs
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 767



« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2003, 08:37:45 PM »

O.k ... and 3.  Boeing's LWF proposal, from Jay Miller's book:



... as I read, that the Boeing LWF contender was in the first round of the down selection suggested with two engines, which was preferred by some potential users of the LWF ... that was later changed to a single engine like the F-16 we know today !

THAT's all I have ... does anyone have some more information Huh??

Enjoy it, Deino  Smiley

 
Logged

...
My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.

The stars are not wanted now; put out every one:
Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun;
Pour away the ocean and sweep up the woods:
For nothing now can ever come to any good.
-
W.H.Auden (1945
elmayerle
What-IF SIG
Needs A Life Outside What-If
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6294



« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2003, 08:51:29 PM »

Well, I seem to recall that Maintrack produced a kit of the "Lancer" and I suspect that the Japanese F-2 could be used as a starting point for modelling the V1600/V1601.  *G* You did leave out one proposal, Northrop's single-engined entry in tandem with their twin-engined one that became the YF-17.
Logged

"Reality is the leading cause of stress amongst those in touch with it."
--Jane Wagner and Lily Tomlin
Deino
Targeted for assassination by JMNs
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 767



« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2003, 09:55:07 PM »

Quote
You did leave out one proposal, Northrop's single-engined entry in tandem with their twin-engined one that became the YF-17.
Do You have any information on this single-engined entry Huh?? I've heard abaut it but didn't find anything more !

Deino  rolleyes  
Logged

...
My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.

The stars are not wanted now; put out every one:
Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun;
Pour away the ocean and sweep up the woods:
For nothing now can ever come to any good.
-
W.H.Auden (1945
elmayerle
What-IF SIG
Needs A Life Outside What-If
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6294



« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2003, 10:59:38 PM »

Quote
Quote
You did leave out one proposal, Northrop's single-engined entry in tandem with their twin-engined one that became the YF-17.
Do You have any information on this single-engined entry Huh?? I've heard abaut it but didn't find anything more !

Deino  rolleyes
Somewhere in boxed files yet unpacked I think I do.  You might do better googling on the "Western Museum of Flight" in Hawthorne, California and writing them to ask what info they have on it.  To the best of my knowledge, they have all of Northrop's PD records.  I know that the company history Northrop produced had a top view of it (again, my copy's packed up "somewhere").

I've got another tantilizer in the files, too.  When IAI was first looking at the Lavi, they talked with Northrop about a hybrid of the Lavi design and the F-5G/F-20 design.  Two very interesting variants, incorporating different percentages of Northrop's design, emerged from the study.
Logged

"Reality is the leading cause of stress amongst those in touch with it."
--Jane Wagner and Lily Tomlin
Tophe
Needs A Life Outside What-If
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9340



WWW
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2003, 04:53:28 AM »

In an old Air-International magazine has been published an article about the forefather of the YF-17 and F-18, rather different : with a single fin. Is it well known for all of you, or are you interested ? it is somewhere in my archives.
Logged

[the word "realistic" hurts my heart...]
elmayerle
What-IF SIG
Needs A Life Outside What-If
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6294



« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2003, 07:01:43 AM »

Quote
In an old Air-International magazine has been published an article about the forefather of the YF-17 and F-18, rather different : with a single fin. Is it well known for all of you, or are you interested ? it is somewhere in my archives.
I would certainly find that of interest, to go with the other info on that evolutionary line.
Logged

"Reality is the leading cause of stress amongst those in touch with it."
--Jane Wagner and Lily Tomlin
Tophe
Needs A Life Outside What-If
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9340



WWW
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2003, 06:30:26 PM »

I have not found the P530 Cobra article in my nearest archives, but a picture was in the French magazine Aero No.17 (1985), with a few details. Before the Northrop YF-17 (manufacturer project P-600, prefered to the single-jet P-610) of 1972 was the 1968 P-530 Cobra, built as a model in 1969. A full scale model of this P-530 was presented in Paris in 1973, as "opponent to the Lockheed CL-1200 Lancer". The very beginning, with a high wing is dated 1966.
Logged

[the word "realistic" hurts my heart...]
elmayerle
What-IF SIG
Needs A Life Outside What-If
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6294



« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2003, 07:06:37 PM »

Quote
I have not found the P530 Cobra article in my nearest archives, but a picture was in the French magazine Aero No.17 (1985), with a few details. Before the Northrop YF-17 (manufacturer project P-600, prefered to the single-jet P-610) of 1972 was the 1968 P-530 Cobra, built as a model in 1969. A full scale model of this P-530 was presented in Paris in 1973, as "opponent to the Lockheed CL-1200 Lancer". The very beginning, with a high wing is dated 1966.
I'm pretty certain that the forward fuselage is hiding a second vertical fin in this view, the P-530 drawings all show twin verticals and the attachment point for the one vertical shown is clearly off-center.
Logged

"Reality is the leading cause of stress amongst those in touch with it."
--Jane Wagner and Lily Tomlin
Deino
Targeted for assassination by JMNs
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 767



« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2003, 07:39:27 PM »

Quote
In an old Air-International magazine has been published an article about the forefather of the YF-17 and F-18, rather different : with a single fin. Is it well known for all of you, or are you interested ? it is somewhere in my archives.
I can only agree with elmayerle .... surely I'm very interested in some information regarding this single-engined, single fin version, because I've never heard about it before !

Thanks in advance ... and I hope Your search will be successful !

Deino  rolleyes  
Logged

...
My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.

The stars are not wanted now; put out every one:
Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun;
Pour away the ocean and sweep up the woods:
For nothing now can ever come to any good.
-
W.H.Auden (1945
Tophe
Needs A Life Outside What-If
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9340



WWW
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2003, 04:43:18 AM »

Dear you all,
Sorry for the misreading  Sad  : you are right as the 1973 model seems to be twin-fin. In the same Aero article is the genealogy below : with change to twin-fin then building the P-530 project, then proposing the single-engined (twin-fin too) P-610, then making the 1973 Cobra, wrongly called P-530 too. But I am sure I have seen a 3-view of the single fin one (twin-engined I think) elsewhere, I have to find it, maybe next week-end... Or will Ollie find it before me, as I know he is an Air-International subscriber like I was.
With my apologies...
Logged

[the word "realistic" hurts my heart...]
Tophe
Needs A Life Outside What-If
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9340



WWW
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2003, 04:52:59 AM »

Another piece in the puzzle : From "Encyclopédie des Avions" by E.Angelucci, with a 1972 printing date, this profile of the P-530, that seems twin-fin too.
Logged

[the word "realistic" hurts my heart...]
elmayerle
What-IF SIG
Needs A Life Outside What-If
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6294



« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2003, 06:22:41 AM »

Well, a three view of the Taiwanese IDF looks remarkable like a single-finned, twin-engine version of this design.
Logged

"Reality is the leading cause of stress amongst those in touch with it."
--Jane Wagner and Lily Tomlin
Tophe
Needs A Life Outside What-If
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9340



WWW
« Reply #14 on: December 05, 2003, 06:11:15 PM »

You are right : see from
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/wor...es/idf-line.gif
Logged

[the word "realistic" hurts my heart...]
Pages: [1] 2
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.17 | SMF © 2011, Simple Machines
TinyPortal v0.9.8 © Bloc
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.097 seconds with 23 queries.

Google visited last this page November 23, 2014, 03:46:10 AM