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Author Topic: McDonnell F3H Demon  (Read 7587 times)
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« on: April 04, 2010, 03:51:55 AM »

Hi folks,

Couldn't find a thread, so here you go:  What about some McDonnell F3H Demon Whiff ideas?




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Greg
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« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2010, 03:56:44 AM »

Here's an idea:

What if the troublesome Westinghouse J40 turbojet was replaced by something more successful such as a RR Avon or Armstrong Siddeley Sapphire (Wright J65)?  Maybe as a RAF or RAAF variant?

What about other users:

RAF
RAAF
RCAF
RN FAA
RAN FAA
 other?

Regards,

Greg
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« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2010, 04:07:47 AM »

I always liked the F3H, it reminded me of a baby Phantom   Grin

How about a dedicated photo-recon version.  They made "P" versions out of almost all of the other early jets but the Demon missed out.  It might look good with a longer nose similar to the F9F-8P Cougar.  A Demon with a long nose....could add a "bump(wort)" for an ECM antennae on it and dub the photo version the "Witch".

Apparently they proposed build one, the F3H-2P, but never built it.  I say it should be done!

One problem it had was all version suffered from a less than stellar engine so if you're gonna do a whiff I'd start with a more powerful and reliable engine and possible enlarge the intakes, they look painfully too small.  A better engine would improve the speed and give weight to a photo bird version.

Only thing I can think of at the moment.  Thoughts?
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Daryl J.
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« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2010, 04:13:50 AM »

A photoschnozz.   Demon FR.2 if the engine's improved.

A 4 foot extension right at the leading edge of the wing, converted to two place, and fitted with some kind of ECM on the tail.  In keeping with McDonnell's theme of  evil, scary spirits have the machine named after some kind of wicked electricity.  Obvious engine upgrade.


[Edit]:  Is Cliffy B my twin from an unknown life?   




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« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2010, 05:03:11 AM »



One problem it had was all version suffered from a less than stellar engine so if you're gonna do a whiff I'd start with a more powerful and reliable engine and possible enlarge the intakes, they look painfully too small.  A better engine would improve the speed and give weight to a photo bird version.

Only thing I can think of at the moment.  Thoughts?

I once drew a picture, ages ago, of an aircraft that was essentially a Demon with a chin intake. A Crusader front end is the first thing that springs to mind, but mine was more like the original front fuselage moved upwards with an F-100 intake underneath it.
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« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2010, 05:32:52 AM »

A photoschnozz.   Demon FR.2 if the engine's improved.

A 4 foot extension right at the leading edge of the wing, converted to two place, and fitted with some kind of ECM on the tail.  In keeping with McDonnell's theme of  evil, scary spirits have the machine named after some kind of wicked electricity.  Obvious engine upgrade.


[Edit]:  Is Cliffy B my twin from an unknown life?

An RAF/RN/RAN/RAAF camo bird would look great as well!  Sea Gray and Slate Gray over Light Gray =  awesome on a stick!

An ECM bird is a sweet idea too!  Maybe mess with the time line of the Demon and have some of the later models survive into Vietnam.  They'd look good in SEA camo with black undersides and a load of AGM-45 Skrikes!  Ah, man I need a kit now!!!!  cool

As for a name for it I can't think of a good one right now.  Anyone know of any mythical electric entity/ghost/animal?  "Volt" comes to mind but it's pretty lame...  "Electric Eel" isn't cool enough either...

For the re-engine how about one of the F-4 Phantom's engines?  The type escapes me at the moment but would one of those work?


One problem in all of this.....anyone know of a production kit of the Demon?  I know Ehmar and Grand Phoenix both make the Demon in 1/72 and 1/48 but both are OOP, hard to find, and expensive when found.  Ideas?

Daryl, great minds think alike huh?


Just found this on Cybermodeler, a delta winged Demon!!!  Here's a link to the book showing it and others http://www.cybermodeler.com/hobby/ref/zich/book_zich_mcdonnell.shtml





« Last Edit: April 04, 2010, 05:47:22 AM by Cliffy B » Logged

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« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2010, 06:55:08 AM »

Always felt that the Demon was perhaps the ugliest of the fighters of the period.  Its obvious though, how it fits into the evolutionary tree of the Phantom though.  I wonder, how about a twin-engined Demon?   Wink
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« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2010, 07:57:55 AM »

Quote
I wonder, how about a twin-engined Demon?

McDonnell XF-88 style?



 Cheers! (water with a bit of baking soda)
Daryl J.
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« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2010, 06:24:59 PM »

Always felt that the Demon was perhaps the ugliest of the fighters of the period. 

Funny - I always thought it quite attractive.

Regards,

Greg
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« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2010, 06:28:36 PM »

Always felt that the Demon was perhaps the ugliest of the fighters of the period. 

Funny - I always thought it quite attractive.

Regards,

Greg

Hey everyone says the F-4 and the A-6 are fugly and they are my favorite jets of all time.  To each his own I guess.
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« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2010, 06:48:33 PM »

I'm with rickshaw on this one, and actually the Demon is the only aircraft, from any period, that I consider truly ugly.
There is just something off about the proportions and outline.

Jared Zichek's booklet/magazine on the McDonnell projects is available here, click on the cover illo for a preview:
http://magcloud.com/browse/Issue/32899

BTW only the original prototypes and the 58 production F3H-1N used the Westinghouse J40 engine, the F3H-2 series had the Allison J71.
None of the J40 powered aircraft went into service.

The F3H-3 was to be powered by the 9,200/12,900 lb thrust GE J73-GE-3, 90 were ordered but all were completed as J71 engined F3H-2.
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« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2010, 07:03:35 PM »

Quote
For the re-engine how about one of the F-4 Phantom's engines?  The type escapes me at the moment but would one of those work?

The J-79.  Could possibly work -maybe as a development step towards the F-4 (after all the J-65 and J-67 were in there as well).

Regards,

Greg
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« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2010, 07:07:23 PM »

I'm with rickshaw on this one, and actually the Demon is the only aircraft, from any period, that I consider truly ugly.
There is just something off about the proportions and outline.

As Cliffy says - To each his own  Grin.

BTW only the original prototypes and the 58 production F3H-1N used the Westinghouse J40 engine, the F3H-2 series had the Allison J71.
None of the J40 powered aircraft went into service.

The F3H-3 was to be powered by the 9,200/12,900 lb thrust GE J73-GE-3, 90 were ordered but all were completed as J71 engined F3H-2.

True - but the J71 versions also suffered their fair share of engine problems.

My favoured whiff of the moment (with no analysis what-so-ever) is a RR Avon powered F-3 for use by the RN & RAN FAAs Grin.

Regards,

Greg
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« Reply #13 on: April 04, 2010, 07:12:04 PM »

A couple of quick knockups:

Recon Demon:



Trainer Demon:



Regards,

Greg
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« Reply #14 on: April 04, 2010, 07:23:26 PM »

Nice ones Greg, the recon Demon looks like it has a pig snout, dare I call it a "Warthog?"  What if you fared the bottom part of the fuselage into the nose instead of ending it where the 20mms are?  Might make the nose a bit more elegant and the recon version would more than likely lose its 20mms anyway.  Although an "armed recon" version does sound better.  At least it could defend itself to some extent.  Keep it up, looking good so far man!
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"Helos don't fly.  They vibrate so violently that the ground rejects them."
-Tom Clancy

"Radial's Growl, Inline's Purr, Jet's Suck!"
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"If all else fails, call in an air strike."
-Anonymous
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